Flash formalism?

Posted by Jim Andrews | Thu Oct 7th 2004 9:34 p.m.

What is "Flash formalism"?

Has this been described anywhere?

ja
http://vispo.com
  • ben syverson | Thu Oct 7th 2004 11:49 p.m.
    On Oct 7, 2004, at 10:34 PM, Jim Andrews wrote:

    > What is "Flash formalism"?
    >
    > Has this been described anywhere?

    yeah, on RHIZOME_RAW circa two days ago when I coined it...

    ;)

    distracted, but still working on a response for curt,

    - ben
  • Jim Andrews | Fri Oct 8th 2004 12:17 a.m.
    > > What is "Flash formalism"?
    > >
    > > Has this been described anywhere?
    >
    > yeah, on RHIZOME_RAW circa two days ago when I coined it...

    I have been scanning the posts, and saw the term, and yes, it seemed like a
    term you cooked up between you, but it wasn't quite clear what it was
    supposed to mean.

    ja
  • Alberto Guedea | Fri Oct 8th 2004 12:39 a.m.
    does anyone remember this piece posted on rhizome raw in 2003? :

    X?H3?}?|? Q???y?? |
    >?'???? ?
  • alex galloway | Fri Oct 8th 2004 5:38 a.m.
    > What is "Flash formalism"?
    >
    > Has this been described anywhere?

    lev manovich has an essay on flash you might want to check out

    http://manovich.net/DOCS/generation_flash.doc
  • Jim Andrews | Fri Oct 8th 2004 6:55 a.m.
    > > What is "Flash formalism"?
    > >
    > > Has this been described anywhere?
    >
    > lev manovich has an essay on flash you might want to check out
    >
    > http://manovich.net/DOCS/generation_flash.doc

    Yes, I've scanned that before. But it doesn't mention "Flash formalism".

    'Flash' and 'formalism' seem like an odd mix to me. Or remix, as the case
    may be. Most of the Flash work one encounters does not seem particularly
    'formal', so I'm curious about the way that the word is being used and what
    work they are thinking of.

    There is quite a range to work done in Flash. Sometimes people do not
    distinguish between work done in Flash and work in Shockwave, which is done
    in Director (and can import SWF), and so 'Flash work' is implicitly assumed
    to encompass Shockwave work also. And then the similarities between
    Shockwave and Java work makes one wonder if the abstract critical category
    of 'Flash work' includes work in Java also.

    If it is difficult to pin the term down simply in the technology it
    references, it is harder to get much of a sense of the intended critical
    meaning concerning artistic matters.

    When I think of 'formalism' in art, the term 'austerity' comes to mind. This
    is typically more an approach in Shockwave and Java work rather than Flash
    work, though it is not unknown in Flash work. And forms of 'formalism' are
    usually associated with some sort of intellectual program which informs the
    world view of the art that arises from the scene. 'Program' would be
    literal, in the case of 'Flash formalism' rather than figurative? And
    'formalism' is usually associated with a 'scene'. Whereas Flash and Director
    and Java are used around the world, the work is not containable within a
    scene. Also, 'formalism' generally conjures associations of work where the
    'content' is emphasized less than the 'form'. But Flash work, at least
    somewhat naive Flash work, of which there is lots, given that it is often a
    popular culture tool, typically emphasizes content, not form.

    So I'm curious about the intended meaning of Ben and Curt's term 'Flash
    formalism'.

    ja
  • curt cloninger | Fri Oct 8th 2004 8:04 a.m.
    Doh! It's not my term. Let Ben defend it. I just work here.

    Calling out Flash has always seemed a bit overly simplistic to me, what with action scripting and lingo and java all being languages that cause things to move. The relationship between the corporate ownerships of these languages/scripts and the effect that has on their artistic merits seems even more tenuous.

    carry on...

    Jim wrote:
    >So I'm curious about the intended meaning of Ben and Curt's term 'Flash
    >formalism'.
  • Jess Loseby | Fri Oct 8th 2004 8:22 a.m.
    <?xml version="1.0" ?><html>
    <head>
    <title></title>
    </head>
    <body>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">in the name of sonny j and all his fluffy angels PLEASE lets not bring that reactionary,
    presumptive exercise in patronizing, *intellectual* snobbery back in to play. Any other of
    his essays, books , conference, papers, transcripts of his phone conversation even, but
    please not that *essay*</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">please no, i beg</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"><b>nooooooooooooooo!!!! There IS NO generation flash!!!!!!! It's a manovich
    mythology!!!</b></span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><br/></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; </span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; lev manovich has an essay on flash you might want to check out</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; </span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; http://manovich.net/DOCS/generation_flash.doc</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; </span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><br/>
    </div>
    <div align="left"><br/>
    </div>
    <div align="left"><br/>
    </div>
    <div align="left"><br/></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"> o</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">/^ rssgallery.com</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"> ][</span></font></div>
    </body>
    </html>
  • Jim Andrews | Fri Oct 8th 2004 8:53 a.m.
    Also, as a piece of writing, even the spelling and grammar indicates it was
    thrown together quickly and without further consideration. Why this sort of
    sloppy work is taken seriously is beyond me. Who's agenda is it serving?

    ja
    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]On Behalf Of
    Jess Loseby
    Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 7:22 AM
    To: list@rhizome.org
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Flash formalism?

    in the name of sonny j and all his fluffy angels PLEASE lets not bring
    that reactionary, presumptive exercise in patronizing, *intellectual*
    snobbery back in to play. Any other of his essays, books , conference,
    papers, transcripts of his phone conversation even, but please not that
    *essay*
    please no, i beg
    nooooooooooooooo!!!! There IS NO generation flash!!!!!!! It's a manovich
    mythology!!!

    >
    > lev manovich has an essay on flash you might want to check out
    >
    > http://manovich.net/DOCS/generation_flash.doc
    >
  • Lewis LaCook | Fri Oct 8th 2004 9:25 p.m.
    yeah, i've often thought that about the texts manovich
    offers online--i think he saves his best shit for
    books--perhaps an indication of bad faith---perhaps
    projection

    lol
    l

    --- Jim Andrews <jim@vispo.com> wrote:

    > Also, as a piece of writing, even the spelling and
    > grammar indicates it was
    > thrown together quickly and without further
    > consideration. Why this sort of
    > sloppy work is taken seriously is beyond me. Who's
    > agenda is it serving?
    >
    > ja
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-list@rhizome.org
    > [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]On Behalf Of
    > Jess Loseby
    > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 7:22 AM
    > To: list@rhizome.org
    > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Flash formalism?
    >
    >
    > in the name of sonny j and all his fluffy angels
    > PLEASE lets not bring
    > that reactionary, presumptive exercise in
    > patronizing, *intellectual*
    > snobbery back in to play. Any other of his essays,
    > books , conference,
    > papers, transcripts of his phone conversation even,
    > but please not that
    > *essay*
    > please no, i beg
    > nooooooooooooooo!!!! There IS NO generation
    > flash!!!!!!! It's a manovich
    > mythology!!!
    >
    >
    > >
    > > lev manovich has an essay on flash you might
    > want to check out
    > >
    > > http://manovich.net/DOCS/generation_flash.doc
    > >
    >

    =====

    ***************************************************************************

    Lewis LaCook -->http://www.lewislacook.com/

    XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/

    Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/

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  • Lewis LaCook | Fri Oct 8th 2004 9:27 p.m.
    flash is still too new, and still taking real baby
    steps toward an actual networked art, to have accrued
    a formalism just yet...

    i would save the fomalism for C++ work, some Java...

    bliss
    l

    --- bensyverson <rhizome@bensyverson.com> wrote:

    >
    > On Oct 7, 2004, at 10:34 PM, Jim Andrews wrote:
    >
    > > What is "Flash formalism"?
    > >
    > > Has this been described anywhere?
    >
    > yeah, on RHIZOME_RAW circa two days ago when I
    > coined it...
    >
    > ;)
    >
    > distracted, but still working on a response for
    > curt,
    >
    > - ben
    >
    > +
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    =====

    ***************************************************************************

    Lewis LaCook -->http://www.lewislacook.com/

    XanaxPop:Mobile Poem Blog-> http://www.lewislacook.com/xanaxpop/

    Collective Writing Projects--> The Wiki--> http://www.lewislacook.com/wiki/ Appendix M ->http://www.lewislacook.com/AppendixM/

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