almost gibberish

Posted by Michael Szpakowski | Sun Feb 1st 2004 3:57 p.m.

Re the discussion on commission/competition specs a
couple of weeks back, even making allowances for the
fact that this is translated from another language,
this is the sort of thing that completely does my head
in.
I find the prospect of trying to make something that
accords with this as inviting as root canal work. Its
not so much that it's complete gibberish -it isn't
quite. It's the monumental mind bending cliche ridden
banality of it that really hits home:

<black box_ something whose internal structure and
internal functioning
are
unknown or not considered to be important

white cube_ an ostensibly neutral space, wholly geared
toward the
presentation of "the artwork" and thus never
unproblematic

Assertion, perception, illusion. black box and white
cube can be
defined in
terms of the interface concept. Interfaces form
transitions and enable
communication between various systems. Contact points,
surfaces,
transmitters. Unknown factor? The interface as
translator and mediator
between medium and message. It's easy to extend the
digital analogy to
a
more general level: user and content, individual and
society, public
and
artist. What demands are thereby placed on interfaces;
how consciously
do we
deal with interfaces; how easily do we let ourselves
be manipulated by
surfaces...?

garage 04 will attempt a critical examination of the
interface
principle,
between surface and source of friction, claim and
actual function. This
applies both to interesting technical interfaces for
entering the black
box
and to the practice of placing, presenting and
producing art and the
conditions under which it is received, oriented
equally toward artists,
producers/curators and the public. Send us your
proposals for
presentations,
installations, performances, projects, papers, and
workshops.>

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  • Rob Myers | Sun Feb 1st 2004 4:39 p.m.
    Saucer of milk, table two!

    On 1 Feb 2004, at 19:57, Michael Szpakowski wrote:

    > Re the discussion on commission/competition specs a
    > couple of weeks back, even making allowances for the
    > fact that this is translated from another language,
    > this is the sort of thing that completely does my head
    > in.

    It's an amusing enough proposition, and shared culture often takes
    cliche as its point of departure. Anyone who wants a destination point
    laid out as well probably should recognise that there won't be anything
    non-hobbyist for them to do in art.

    > I find the prospect of trying to make something that
    > accords with this as inviting as root canal work. Its
    > not so much that it's complete gibberish -it isn't
    > quite. It's the monumental mind bending cliche ridden
    > banality of it that really hits home:

    So provide an alternative. Ironise it. Do a Duchamp. Any of these
    approaches will contribute to this managerial/consultancy culture of
    "free verse crossed with a video recorder instruction manual" (as I
    called it a decade ago) withering away.

    - Rob.
  • Michael Szpakowski | Sun Feb 1st 2004 5:40 p.m.
    Rob
    I don't understand any of your reply.
    michael
    --- Rob Myers <robmyers@mac.com> wrote:
    > Saucer of milk, table two!
    >
    > On 1 Feb 2004, at 19:57, Michael Szpakowski wrote:
    >
    > > Re the discussion on commission/competition specs
    > a
    > > couple of weeks back, even making allowances for
    > the
    > > fact that this is translated from another
    > language,
    > > this is the sort of thing that completely does my
    > head
    > > in.
    >
    > It's an amusing enough proposition, and shared
    > culture often takes
    > cliche as its point of departure. Anyone who wants a
    > destination point
    > laid out as well probably should recognise that
    > there won't be anything
    > non-hobbyist for them to do in art.
    >
    > > I find the prospect of trying to make something
    > that
    > > accords with this as inviting as root canal work.
    > Its
    > > not so much that it's complete gibberish -it isn't
    > > quite. It's the monumental mind bending cliche
    > ridden
    > > banality of it that really hits home:
    >
    > So provide an alternative. Ironise it. Do a Duchamp.
    > Any of these
    > approaches will contribute to this
    > managerial/consultancy culture of
    > "free verse crossed with a video recorder
    > instruction manual" (as I
    > called it a decade ago) withering away.
    >
    > - Rob.
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
    > open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
    > out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at
    http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

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  • Jess Loseby | Sun Feb 1st 2004 5:44 p.m.
    <?xml version="1.0" ?>
    <html>
    <head>
    <title></title>
    </head>
    <body>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">Hi Michael,</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">somebody has just be overdosing on
    manovich again....</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">see:</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning
    from Prada ' Lev Manovich
    (2002)&#160; (http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><br/>
    </div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">which contains a piece of writing
    sub headed 'White Cube versus Black
    Box' </span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">I think it might have been published
    on rhizome too at the time.</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><br/>
    </div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">not that anyone is allowing their
    curatorial agendas to be influenced too
    heavily on manovich's writing.</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">no. surely not.</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><br/>
    </div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">jess.</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><br/>
    </div>
    <div align="left"><br/>
    </div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>Date sent:&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160; &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:57:45 -0800
    (PST)</u></span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>From:&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160; &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;Michael Szpakowski
    &lt;szpako@yahoo.com&gt;</u></span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>Subject:&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160; &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish</u></span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>To:&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160; &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;rhizome
    &lt;list@rhizome.org&gt;</u></span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#008000"><span style="font-size:10pt"><u>Send reply to:&#160; &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;Michael Szpakowski &lt;szpako@yahoo.com&gt;</u></span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><br/></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; Re the discussion
    on commission/competition specs a</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; couple of weeks
    back, even making allowances for the</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; fact that this
    is translated from another language,</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; this is the sort
    of thing that completely does my head</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; in.</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt;&gt; </span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; &lt;black box_&gt; </span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; Assertion, perception,
    illusion. black box and white</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:10pt">&gt; cube c</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"> o</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt">/^ rssgallery.com</span></font></div>
    <div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10pt"> ][</span></font></div>
    </body>
    </html>
  • Rob Myers | Sun Feb 1st 2004 6:15 p.m.
    Then it is entirely gibberish.

    Hoorah! :-)

    OK, sorry, in plain non-Rob English:

    If you don't like what they're saying there are still constructive ways
    of engaging with it.

    I'm not that keen on this kind of gibberish either, but engaging
    constructively with it means that it can be got rid of or redirected.

    - Rob.

    On 1 Feb 2004, at 21:40, Michael Szpakowski wrote:

    > Rob
    > I don't understand any of your reply.
  • Jess Loseby | Sun Feb 1st 2004 7:20 p.m.
    i'll try that again - really did come out gibberish for some reason >-*
    ----

    Hi Michael,
    somebody has just be overdosing on manovich again....
    see:
    The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from Prada ' Lev Manovich
    (2002) (http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)

    which contains a piece of writing sub headed 'White Cube versus Black
    Box'
    I think it might have been published on rhizome too at the time.

    not that anyone is allowing their curatorial agendas to be influenced too
    heavily on manovich's writing.
    no. surely not.

    jess. o
    /^ rssgallery.com
    ][
  • Michael Szpakowski | Sun Feb 1st 2004 7:42 p.m.
    Hi Rob
    Thanks for the explanation.
    It was really only a bit of spleen venting on my part
    .. but I have to disagree with you a little ..I think
    engaging with this sort of nonsense legitimises it..it
    becomes ( becomes -who am I kidding -*is*) part of the
    commonly accepted culture..and it's simply a
    substitute for thought..I'm not sure that ironizing it
    does anything either except engage with it on its own
    shallow terms.
    Sometimes, big things , little things , Iraq War,
    cyber babble , you have to take a stand.
    If it was a choice between going back to a day job &
    only having the possibility of working with dreck like
    this quite honestly I think I'd go back to work.
    best
    michael
    --- Rob Myers <robmyers@mac.com> wrote:
    > Then it is entirely gibberish.
    >
    > Hoorah! :-)
    >
    > OK, sorry, in plain non-Rob English:
    >
    > If you don't like what they're saying there are
    > still constructive ways
    > of engaging with it.
    >
    > I'm not that keen on this kind of gibberish either,
    > but engaging
    > constructively with it means that it can be got rid
    > of or redirected.
    >
    > - Rob.

    =====
    *** QuickTime large QuickTime NUMBER, it is small, office being nearly office OF the office OF the COMMANDS office OF the film or many nearly time the small order where that, that is the office OF the office OF the COMMANDS QuickTime when into the film, is given, it gives the office OF the
    http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/Some_QuickTime_Movies
    http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/ ***

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  • Michael Szpakowski | Sun Feb 1st 2004 7:54 p.m.
    Influenced" is kind Jess.
    Whatever you think of Manovich he's consistent
    thoughtful and coherent which is more than you can say
    for his epigones.
    But you're right about the methodology - not willing
    to make the effort to have an original thought we lift
    a bit of half or quarter digested Manovich ( or
    Derrida, or Lyotard or Lacan or...) that sounds kinda
    cool, and attach it willy nilly to our
    project..ensuring instant cred with the art
    fashionistas.
    Pass me the sick bag!
    best
    michael

    --- Jess Loseby <jess@rssgallery.com> wrote:
    > i'll try that again - really did come out gibberish
    > for some reason >-*
    > ----
    >
    > Hi Michael,
    > somebody has just be overdosing on manovich
    > again....
    > see:
    > The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from Prada
    > ' Lev Manovich
    > (2002) (http://www.manovich.net in the articles
    > section)
    >
    > which contains a piece of writing sub headed 'White
    > Cube versus Black
    > Box'
    > I think it might have been published on rhizome too
    > at the time.
    >
    > not that anyone is allowing their curatorial agendas
    > to be influenced too
    > heavily on manovich's writing.
    > no. surely not.
    >
    > jess. o
    > /^ rssgallery.com
    > ][
    >
    >
    >
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
    > open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
    > out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at
    http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

    __________________________________
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  • Eryk Salvaggio | Sun Feb 1st 2004 10:11 p.m.
    What is a Lev Manovich?

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jess Loseby
    To: Michael Szpakowski ; list@rhizome.org
    Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 4:36 PM
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish

    Hi Michael,
    somebody has just be overdosing on manovich again....
    see:
    The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from Prada ' Lev Manovich (2002)=
    (http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)

    which contains a piece of writing sub headed 'White Cube versus Black Box=
    '
    I think it might have been published on rhizome too at the time.

    not that anyone is allowing their curatorial agendas to be influenced too=
    heavily on manovich's writing.
    no. surely not.

    jess.

    Date sent: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:57:45 -0800 (PST)
    From: Michael Szpakowski <szpako@yahoo.com>
    Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish
    To: rhizome <list@rhizome.org>
    Send reply to: Michael Szpakowski <szpako@yahoo.com>

    > Re the discussion on commission/competition specs a
    > couple of weeks back, even making allowances for the
    > fact that this is translated from another language,
    > this is the sort of thing that completely does my head
    > in.
    >>
    > <black box_>
    > Assertion, perception, illusion. black box and white
    > cube c
    o
    /^ rssgallery.com
    ][
    + -> post: list@rhizome.org -> questions: info@rhizome.org -> subscribe/u=
    nsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz -> give: http://r=
    hizome.org/support -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to=
    non-members + Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in t=
    he Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php=
  • Eryk Salvaggio | Sun Feb 1st 2004 10:12 p.m.
    Manovich, I hear he's good but he's no Salvaggio

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Michael Szpakowski" <szpako@yahoo.com>
    To: "Jess Loseby" <jess@rssgallery.com>; <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 6:54 PM
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish

    > "Influenced" is kind Jess.
    > Whatever you think of Manovich he's consistent
    > thoughtful and coherent which is more than you can say
    > for his epigones.
    > But you're right about the methodology - not willing
    > to make the effort to have an original thought we lift
    > a bit of half or quarter digested Manovich ( or
    > Derrida, or Lyotard or Lacan or...) that sounds kinda
    > cool, and attach it willy nilly to our
    > project..ensuring instant cred with the art
    > fashionistas.
    > Pass me the sick bag!
    > best
    > michael
    >
    > --- Jess Loseby <jess@rssgallery.com> wrote:
    > > i'll try that again - really did come out gibberish
    > > for some reason >-*
    > > ----
    > >
    > > Hi Michael,
    > > somebody has just be overdosing on manovich
    > > again....
    > > see:
    > > The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from Prada
    > > ' Lev Manovich
    > > (2002) (http://www.manovich.net in the articles
    > > section)
    > >
    > > which contains a piece of writing sub headed 'White
    > > Cube versus Black
    > > Box'
    > > I think it might have been published on rhizome too
    > > at the time.
    > >
    > > not that anyone is allowing their curatorial agendas
    > > to be influenced too
    > > heavily on manovich's writing.
    > > no. surely not.
    > >
    > > jess. o
    > > /^ rssgallery.com
    > > ][
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > +
    > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
    > > open to non-members
    > > +
    > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
    > > out in the
    > > Membership Agreement available online at
    > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
    >
    > __________________________________
    > Do you Yahoo!?
    > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
    > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
    > +
    > -> post: list@rhizome.org
    > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
    > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
    > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
    > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
    > +
    > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
    > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >
  • Michael Szpakowski | Mon Feb 2nd 2004 5:09 a.m.
    Hello Eryk!
    best
    michael
    --- Eryk Salvaggio <eryk@maine.rr.com> wrote:
    >
    > What is a Lev Manovich?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Jess Loseby
    > To: Michael Szpakowski ; list@rhizome.org
    > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 4:36 PM
    > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish
    >
    >
    > Hi Michael,
    > somebody has just be overdosing on manovich
    > again....
    > see:
    > The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from
    > Prada ' Lev Manovich (2002)
    > (http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)
    >
    >
    > which contains a piece of writing sub headed
    > 'White Cube versus Black Box'
    > I think it might have been published on rhizome
    > too at the time.
    >
    >
    > not that anyone is allowing their curatorial
    > agendas to be influenced too heavily on manovich's
    > writing.
    > no. surely not.
    >
    >
    > jess.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Date sent: Sun, 1 Feb 2004
    > 11:57:45 -0800 (PST)
    > From: Michael Szpakowski
    > <szpako@yahoo.com>
    > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: almost
    > gibberish
    > To: rhizome
    > <list@rhizome.org>
    > Send reply to: Michael Szpakowski
    > <szpako@yahoo.com>
    >
    >
    > > Re the discussion on commission/competition
    > specs a
    > > couple of weeks back, even making allowances for
    > the
    > > fact that this is translated from another
    > language,
    > > this is the sort of thing that completely does
    > my head
    > > in.
    > >>
    > > <black box_>
    > > Assertion, perception, illusion. black box and
    > white
    > > cube c
    > o
    > /^ rssgallery.com
    > ][
    > + -> post: list@rhizome.org -> questions:
    > info@rhizome.org -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz ->
    > give: http://rhizome.org/support -> visit: on
    > Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to
    > non-members + Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to
    > the terms set out in the Membership Agreement
    > available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    >

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  • Rob Myers | Mon Feb 2nd 2004 8:17 a.m.
    On Sunday, February 01, 2004, at 11:54PM, Michael Szpakowski <szpako@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >epigones.

    Cool, I learnt a new word. :-)

    - Rob.
  • Rob Myers | Mon Feb 2nd 2004 8:28 a.m.
    On Sunday, February 01, 2004, at 11:42PM, Michael Szpakowski <szpako@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > It was really only a bit of spleen venting on my part

    I can relate to that. :-)

    >.. but I have to disagree with you a little ..I think
    >engaging with this sort of nonsense legitimises it..it
    >becomes ( becomes -who am I kidding -*is*) part of the
    >commonly accepted culture..and it's simply a
    >substitute for thought..I'm not sure that ironizing it
    >does anything either except engage with it on its own
    >shallow terms.

    I agree that producing something explained in terms of or just illustrating curatorial cyber-wibble* would just legitimise it. However a critical engagement (and "engagement" can refer to a military event as well as a social event...) might be more effective than spleen venting IMVHO.

    And I didn't think the proposal was all that bad. Our current political problems have much to do with interface/mediation problems. Or can be phrased in that way. Content doesn't have to be single-layered.

    For *real* curatorial wibble you should read the "Artbollocks" page in "The Jackdaw" magazine. :-)

    >Sometimes, big things , little things , Iraq War,
    >cyber babble , you have to take a stand.
    >If it was a choice between going back to a day job &
    >only having the possibility of working with dreck like
    >this quite honestly I think I'd go back to work.
    >best

    Or you can send them a urinal.

    But I have a day job. I'd rather start with the dreck and come up with something useful. Like making "tupperware" from the sludge it starts out as...

    - Rob.

    * - Wibble = voluminous nonsense.
  • Eryk Salvaggio | Tue Feb 3rd 2004 4:50 a.m.
    Hello and Goodbye! My membership has expired and I am simply not interested
    in resubscribing. Both of you feel free to say hello and let me know about
    new works and ideas you're posting to rhizome.

    Cheers,
    -er.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Michael Szpakowski" <szpako@yahoo.com>
    To: "Eryk Salvaggio" <eryk@maine.rr.com>; "Jess Loseby"
    <jess@rssgallery.com>; <list@rhizome.org>
    Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:09 AM
    Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish

    > Hello Eryk!
    > best
    > michael
    > --- Eryk Salvaggio <eryk@maine.rr.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > What is a Lev Manovich?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: Jess Loseby
    > > To: Michael Szpakowski ; list@rhizome.org
    > > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 4:36 PM
    > > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: almost gibberish
    > >
    > >
    > > Hi Michael,
    > > somebody has just be overdosing on manovich
    > > again....
    > > see:
    > > The Poetics of Augmented Space: Learning from
    > > Prada ' Lev Manovich (2002)
    > > (http://www.manovich.net in the articles section)
    > >
    > >
    > > which contains a piece of writing sub headed
    > > 'White Cube versus Black Box'
    > > I think it might have been published on rhizome
    > > too at the time.
    > >
    > >
    > > not that anyone is allowing their curatorial
    > > agendas to be influenced too heavily on manovich's
    > > writing.
    > > no. surely not.
    > >
    > >
    > > jess.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Date sent: Sun, 1 Feb 2004
    > > 11:57:45 -0800 (PST)
    > > From: Michael Szpakowski
    > > <szpako@yahoo.com>
    > > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: almost
    > > gibberish
    > > To: rhizome
    > > <list@rhizome.org>
    > > Send reply to: Michael Szpakowski
    > > <szpako@yahoo.com>
    > >
    > >
    > > > Re the discussion on commission/competition
    > > specs a
    > > > couple of weeks back, even making allowances for
    > > the
    > > > fact that this is translated from another
    > > language,
    > > > this is the sort of thing that completely does
    > > my head
    > > > in.
    > > >>
    > > > <black box_>
    > > > Assertion, perception, illusion. black box and
    > > white
    > > > cube c
    > > o
    > > /^ rssgallery.com
    > > ][
    > > + -> post: list@rhizome.org -> questions:
    > > info@rhizome.org -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
    > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz ->
    > > give: http://rhizome.org/support -> visit: on
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    > > non-members + Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to
    > > the terms set out in the Membership Agreement
    > > available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
    > >
    >
    >
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